Justice Estimates (14 April 2025)

From Intergovernmental Affairs and Justice Committee Hansard (14 April 2025)

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Estimates for Ministry of Justice and Attorney General

Chair B. McLeod: — Welcome to the Standing Committee on Intergovernmental Affairs and Justice. And we are now going to consider the 2025-26 estimates for Vote 3, Justice and Attorney General, central management and services, subvote (JU01). And I will say that since we did take a short break and use some time, we’ll just add 10 minutes to this portion of what we’re doing to make sure that we complete the time requirements that are there for us.

So Minister McLeod is here with officials from the ministry, and I would ask that officials that are gathered with us — and welcome — please introduce themselves before they speak for the first time and not thereafter, just the first time. And please do not touch the microphones. The Hansard operator will turn them on for you when you speak.

So, Minister McLeod, please introduce your officials and make your opening comments please.

Hon. Tim McLeod: — Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and good evening again to the committee. I am pleased to provide the highlights of the Ministry of Justice and Attorney General’s 2025-26 budget and financial plan and to answer any questions from the committee.

The Ministry of Justice and Attorney General’s budget focuses on delivering greater access to justice services for Saskatchewan communities and continues our ongoing work to improve public safety and deliver safer communities and neighbourhoods. All Saskatchewan citizens rely on our justice system to maintain public safety, resolve disputes, and ensure the rule of law in our province. Our budget maintains our commitment to providing ongoing justice services through the Ministry of Justice and Attorney General and its dedicated staff.

The courts and the provincial justice system are fundamental pillars of our province, and ministry staff work every day to ensure these systems serve the best interests of Saskatchewan people. The justice system provides critical services to protect the vulnerable in our society, including victims and survivors of interpersonal violence and abuse; families that need support as a result of separation, divorce, or other difficulties; and those who cannot independently manage their own financial matters.

We also provide citizens with services they can use to resolve disputes with each other, like those offered by the Office of Residential Tenancies and the dispute resolution office. And we ensure that citizens have a voice in the justice system through agencies like the Public Complaints Commission, the serious incident response team, and the Highway Traffic Board.

Before we get into specifics of the ministry’s ’25-26 budget, I will introduce the officials joining us here today. Seated with me are deputy minister of Justice Kimberly Kratzig and deputy attorney general Max Bilson, K.C. Also in the room, our assistant deputy attorney general of justice services and tribunals, Kylie Head, K.C.; assistant deputy attorney general of public prosecutions, Elizabeth Hilts, K.C.; assistant deputy minister of courts and community justice, Rory Jensen; assistant deputy minister of corporate services, Brad Gurash; Chief Coroner of Saskatchewan, Jeffrey Wagner; executive director of community safety and well-being, Gina Alexander; executive director of financial services, Cindy Froehlich; and chief executive officer of Legal Aid Saskatchewan, Jayne Mallin. I will ask officials to introduce themself as they come forward when they respond to questions.

Mr. Chair, this budget aligns with our government’s record investments in Saskatchewan communities. In total, we are investing approximately $271 million to maintain and enhance the justice system for Saskatchewan residents. Overall we have increased our expense budget by approximately $24.2 million over the last year. This is a 9.8 per cent increase.

This funding represents targeted investments in implementing new bylaw court hub to enhance municipal bylaw enforcement, expanding traffic safety court to improve how we handle traffic tickets and other provincial offences, undertaking significant improvements to modernize court technology and infrastructure, ensuring public prosecutions has the resources it needs to ensure cases are resolved quickly and fairly, ongoing work to address interpersonal violence and abuse across the province, and adding capacity to the serious incident response team.

I will briefly provide more specifics on these items before we move on to taking questions, starting with the courts. For court enhancements, Saskatchewan’s courts and the judiciary work every day to resolve disputes, uphold our laws, and maintain confidence in the justice system. Ministry of Justice and Attorney General staff and systems provide critical support to this work.

This year, as part of our ongoing commitment to improve access to justice through the courts, we will be making enhancements to how our courts facilitate bylaw enforcement and the enforcement of provincial offences, such as violations under The Traffic Safety Act.

Our budget includes approximately $447,000 to expand traffic safety and municipal bylaw court hubs in two locations. This funding will support the operational costs of expanding the courts to allow for the hiring of three additional FTEs [full-time equivalent] to manage the new court locations.

We are also dedicating approximately $665,000 for four new civilian prosecutors and two legal assistants that will support the traffic safety court expansion. These new civilian prosecutors will take over the prosecution of traffic safety Act violations and other provincial offences from municipal police officers and the RCMP [Royal Canadian Mounted Police], allowing them to refocus their efforts on core front-line policing duties. In addition to making our courts more efficient and accessible to the public, these initiatives will also reduce the amount of time police need to spend in court, allowing them to dedicate their efforts again to the core front-line policing duties in our Saskatchewan communities.

Our justice system, our laws, and the expectations of the public have evolved considerably over the years, and the speed at which this evolution is occurring is only increasing. To ensure our courts can continue to keep up with these ongoing changes, this year’s budget includes $3.38 million for ongoing enhancements to technology and infrastructure in Saskatchewan courts. These enhancements include the implementation of a fully integrated electronic filing system with a public-facing portal for the Court of King’s Bench, which will make the court significantly more accessible. Additional infrastructure improvements being made this year include improved accessibility in jury rooms, refurbished detention cells, and standardized security desks and distress button systems throughout all courthouses in the province.

Under the fine option program, Mr. Chair, while we take steps to modernize our court processes, we also want to ensure we are investing in alternatives to court for lower level offences. With this in mind, we are investing $205,000 into improvements to the fine option program to ensure accountability for offenders and provide alternatives for people who are unable to pay off tickets and fines for minor offences.

Under public prosecutions, equally critical to the operation of our courts are the prosecutors who attend them every day and hold people accountable to our laws. Saskatchewan prosecutors are some of the best in the country. To ensure we can maintain this high level of service, we have made numerous investments in public prosecutions in recent years. This year will be no different.

In response to the expanded use of body-worn cameras by the RCMP and municipal police services, we will be investing $822,000 to hire three prosecutors and six legal assistants in our public prosecutions division. These staff will be dedicated to processing and reviewing the significant amount of video evidence that we are anticipating from the growing use of bodyworn cameras by police across the province.

We are also providing an additional $239,000 to the case readiness unit, which works to address high caseloads and prioritize complex criminal cases. This investment will support the unit in its ongoing efforts to obtain disclosure as early as possible from police agencies and ensure cases are complete and ready to move forward as soon as possible through the criminal justice process.

Mr. Chair, we remain steadfast in our support for individuals affected by interpersonal violence. We know this continues to be a problem across our country and indeed across our province, as attested by the domestic violence death review report that was released earlier this year. Saskatchewan has taken major steps to address domestic violence and abuse over the last 10 years, but we know there is always more to be done.

That is why this year we will invest approximately $31.7 million into interpersonal violence programs, supports, and tools through the Saskatchewan justice system. The 2025-26 budget dedicates an additional $720,000 to community-based organizations supported by the ministry, the majority of which deliver supports and services to families affected by interpersonal violence and abuse.

We are also maintaining our commitment to second-stage housing this year by providing $328,000 in total to second-stage housing facilities across the province. This funding supports intervention and counselling services for women and their children leaving situations of interpersonal violence and abuse.

Other key investments in this area include funding to support enhanced early interventions for at-risk families, and ongoing investments in the development of programs, services, and tools to ensure appropriate responses to survivors and perpetrators of interpersonal violence. As our justice system and services continue to evolve, we understand the importance of having appropriate oversight and accountability in place to maintain public confidence in the rule of law, and particularly in those we have entrusted to keep the peace.

In January of 2023, we took a major step to reinforce police oversight and accountability through the launch of the serious incident response team, or SIRT for short. Since it was established in 2023, SIRT has experienced high demand, opening 45 files in its first year alone. This has put pressure on existing resources. To address this pressure, we are increasing funding to the SIRT by $188,000 in the 2025-26 budget, for a total of $1.1 million overall. This new funding will be used to hire an additional investigator to expand the team’s capacity, ensuring timely and thorough reviews of serious incidents involving police. This investment reaffirms our government’s ongoing commitment to strong police oversight in Saskatchewan that maintains accountability, transparency, and public confidence in our police services.

In conclusion, the Ministry of Justice and Attorney General is well positioned to meet its goals and mandate in 2025-26. We look forward to continuing our work with other ministries, the courts, and our community partners to promote access to justice services, accountability, and public safety. The funding for the 2025-26 fiscal year will ensure a fair and equitable justice system for everyone in Saskatchewan.

I would now be pleased to answer your questions about the budget and business plan for the Ministry of Justice and Attorney General. Thank you

Chair B. McLeod: — Yeah. Thank you, Minister McLeod. I will now open the floor to questions. MLA Sarauer, please.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Minister, for your opening remarks. Before I get started I just want to first of all acknowledge and thank all of your officials for being here this evening. Really appreciate you taking the time to be here with us.

Let’s start by exploring the hub program expansion that you have spoken about and that’s included in the budget. Can you talk about what that is going to look like in those new locations?

Rory Jensen: — Rory Jensen, assistant deputy minister of courts and community justice. So the ministry is working with the Provincial Court to make sure that they have the resources in place to expand the number of sittings dedicated specifically to municipal bylaws and traffic safety matters. We’re working with the court to establish additional sittings in Fort Qu’Appelle and Rosthern to hear bylaw matters and traffic safety court.

One of the things that the minister and ministry has been hearing from SUMA and SARM is their communities’ abilities to have their bylaw matters heard before court can be limited when they go on a regular docket, as it can be quite full especially in Regina and Saskatoon. So by working with the court to give them resources to have additional sittings, we can ensure communities can have more confidence that their bylaw matters are being enforced, as well as the courts can ensure that resources are being heard by the appropriate matter, where the bylaw matters on a regular docket will be heard by a Provincial Court judge. When it’s on a bylaw court, dedicated bylaw sitting, it’s a Justice of the Peace sitting.

So by expanding the bylaw courts, you allow Provincial Court judges time to focus on those more serious and complex legal matters. So it’s really about having the appropriate level of resources and expanding capacity of the Provincial Court.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you. It’s a concern that has been raised with myself as well. I’m just curious what the additional resources will provide. Will it be access to additional space? Are you thinking that this court will sit at times of day that court isn’t currently sitting? I’m just curious to see how that’s going to address the pressures that already exist within the Provincial Court.

Rory Jensen: — So by expanding to communities near Rosthern and Fort Qu’Appelle and shifting some of the surrounding matters from the communities outside of Regina — typically these communities will have their matters come into Regina or Saskatoon — by shifting some of the bylaw traffic safety matters out of the courthouses in Regina and Saskatoon, we’re actually freeing up capacity in Regina and Saskatoon to allow matters to move more quickly, to free up courtroom time in those larger communities as the Provincial Court has already established circuit points.

So we’re working with the Chief Judge and the Provincial Court to make sure that they have the resources to expand the number of sittings in those circuit points to hear those non-Regina and -Saskatoon matters in a different circuit point to free up courtroom time and resource time in the larger communities.

Nicole Sarauer: — I’ve also heard some concerns about pressures within the circuit points as well. I suppose my question is again how will these resources address the needs within these particular communities? I understand how it’s going to be shifting the pressure away from the Regina Court House, which is quite busy, but how will it also be addressing some of the pressures within the circuit points that already exist?

Rory Jensen: — So these resources will help provide the Provincial Court additional sitting days. It would also free up on a typical circuit those dockets. Right now the dockets would receive all matters — bylaw matters, traffic safety matters. The additional resources will allow for those sittings to be freed up, the regular sittings to be freed up for more criminal matters, traffic safety matters to be heard at traffic safety court, and bylaw matters to be heard there.

We also, as part of our investments into court technology and court modernization, we continue to invest in videoconference conferencing technology to continue to expand that to help alleviate pressures in some of those more remote communities. And typically that would be where we would see a lot of benefit from expanding the video court technology and being able to hear more matters on a docket and have resources available to those remote communities.

Nicole Sarauer: — Are you able to share what communities will have their bylaw matters moved to these two hub locations?

Rory Jensen: — So we’re working closely with the Provincial Court and the Chief Judge to identify exactly which communities, as the catchment areas and where certain matters are heard are the decision of the Provincial Court. We’re compiling the data to make recommendations of possible communities, but ultimately that decision is a decision of the Chief Judge of the Provincial Court.

Nicole Sarauer: — I know there are many First Nations across the province who are keen to be able to access bylaw courts once the summary offences procedure amendments that we passed about a year ago come into force. What is the plan for addressing that need as well?

Rory Jensen: — The ministry is working with a number of First Nations. We’re consulting with a number of First Nations on ensuring that we have a municipal bylaw ticket, a First Nations bylaw ticket format that will meet all their needs as well as the needs of the Provincial Court.

We’ve also been in consultation with the Provincial Court about ensuring that First Nations would have access to a bylaw docket or a regular docket, and that work continues. And we have confirmed that when they are ready and First Nations are ready to come on board and issue tickets and provide prosecution for those tickets, that they would be able to have access to a docket in Provincial Court.

Nicole Sarauer: — Will additional funding be required for Provincial Court to be able to accommodate that need than what is already contemplated in this budget?

Rory Jensen: — So as this is not in place yet, we’re still working with the Provincial Court to collect data and show kind of what anticipated needs would be and what anticipated additional volume of traffic would be on this. So we’re working closely with the Provincial Court to provide data analysis on items that they require, but as we are not implemented yet, it’s difficult to determine what that additional volume would be on the court right now.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you. Do you have any timelines you can give to the committee on when that particular piece will be implemented?

Kimberly Kratzig: — Just a point of clarity. Is that a question about the First Nations element or the actual municipal bylaws?

Nicole Sarauer: — First Nations.

Kimberly Kratzig: — Okay.

Rory Jensen: — At this point we do not have a firm timeline on when that will be implemented.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you. You also mentioned a traffic safety court expansion. The minister provided a little bit of information at the beginning. Could you provide some more detail as to what that will look like?

Rory Jensen: — So with the expansion of traffic safety court, really, we’re working with the Provincial Court to help them establish additional sittings to alleviate some of the pressures that are being experienced in Regina and Saskatoon as a number of communities in the surrounding areas go into there.

We’re also looking at hiring additional civilian prosecutors, so non-lawyer prosecutors, to prosecute traffic safety matters in the new hubs — the expansion in Fort Qu’Appelle and Rosthern — as well as to replace policing resources prosecuting tickets in Prince Albert and North Battleford.

So this will help free up policing resources to focus on policing matters and be out on the front lines instead of prosecuting tickets. This’ll also help alleviate some of the large dockets that are happening in Regina and Saskatoon as those go quite lengthy. And by helping the court open these additional sittings, they’ll be able to provide better service to both the surrounding communities around Regina and Saskatoon, as well as in Regina and Saskatoon.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you. Now, Minister, your officials will know that I can’t let a conversation go by around the expansion of traffic safety court and the need to free up police resources without asking about the e-justice project which, for I believe the last two years, I’ve been told by the ministry, is not cancelled; it’s paused.

Minister, can you give us an update on that project? Will it be un-paused this year?

Rory Jensen: — The e-justice project continues to be paused. The ministry has identified other areas where we believe could receive more . . . beneficial for investments. Part of that is part of the court modernization projects which continues to be implementation of the J-STAR [judicial scheduling, tracking and amalgamated reporting system] project which we were hoping . . . We targeted to design and implement and fully integrate the electronic filing system with our public-facing portal. So the general public, the legal community can file documents, identify what has all been filed in matters that they are involved with, as well as a fully integrated case management system for the Court of King’s Bench.

There was also funds for enhancements to eCourt, which is the Court of Appeal system. We’re also making additional investments in judicial IT and courtroom technology. That’s going to address software and licensing, enhance IT security, add additional IT infrastructure and, as I mentioned earlier, continue to expand and enhance video courts technology as well.

Nicole Sarauer: — How much was spent on the e-justice project to date, including staff time and infrastructure?

Kimberly Kratzig: — In the ministry’s ’25-26 budget there is about $10,000 spend to maintain the IT infrastructure of the project.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you. I did ask total to date; can you give me that number?

Kimberly Kratzig: — Pardon me?

Nicole Sarauer: — I asked total to date. Could you give me that number?

Kimberly Kratzig: — We don’t have that information with us, but I could endeavour to look into that for you.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you. Can you commit to tabling that for the committee in the next 30 days or so?

Kimberly Kratzig: — I can endeavour to look into it for you and see how long that might take. I don’t think I would give a time frame at this point because I just don’t know where that information would lie.

Nicole Sarauer: — Okay. Minister, this question is for you. In light of the information your officials have provided around the e-justice project and the decision being made to focus on other projects that have been described but are not the e-justice project, are you prepared this evening to conclude that the better description of the status of the project is now cancelled?

Hon. Tim McLeod: — Thanks for the question. No. Given that we’re continuing to invest in maintaining the IT system, I would describe it as being paused.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you. Moving on to the domestic violence death review report that you had mentioned in your opening comments, Minister, could you provide a timeline and a plan for implementation of the recommendations within the report?

Gina Alexander: — Good evening. Gina Alexander, executive director of community safety and well-being. We have a number of things going on with the domestic violence death review, and I’m going to refer to the recommendation that’s corresponding with it as well as the work that we have already started and will continue to work on.

So for recommendation no. 1 . . . You’ll know that there’s recommendations and then you’ll know there’s opportunities for action. I won’t go into the opportunities for action unless there’s a follow-up question. But for recommendation no. 1, which is prioritizing education awareness initiatives aimed at supporting all Saskatchewan residents to recognize, address, and prevent domestic violence in all its forms, we have the public awareness campaign continuing. So we’re in our third year of the public awareness campaign and we’re making efforts to carry on in the next phase of the public awareness campaign. So that’s the first element of that.

Still following on recommendation no. 1, we have a national action plan project titled natural supports program, and this is an agreement with a community-based organization through an RFP [request for proposal] process where the intention is to develop and coordinate the delivery of training that allows people to learn what to do and when their friend, family member, client, parishioner, and so on is in a domestic violence situation and needs assistance.

And then the third element for recommendation no. 1 is a healthy relationships program, also supported through national action plan funding in an agreement with a community-based organization. And this will be to develop and implement healthy relationships training for youth that focus on preventing violence, including online communication.

There’s more. Shall I just keep going?

Nicole Sarauer: — Please, yeah.

Gina Alexander: — Okay. Recommendation no. 2, then: focusing efforts on evidence-based intervention and programs that target people who perpetrate domestic violence with an emphasis on accountability and behaviour change. The Re:Connect provincial crisis hotline continues in ’25-26, and it is there to support individuals and families at risk of violence.

The next one is an enhanced early intervention support for families at higher risk for violence, also part supported by the national action plan funding. And this is an agreement with two community-based organizations, one in Regina and one in Saskatoon, to pilot an outreach support to those at risk of using violence, regardless of charges, and provide individual interventions that aim to increase emotional regulation and change behaviour.

The next one is the family intervention rapid support team, which are similar to the one that I just talked about. It’s a relentless outreach project for community-based organizations in Kindersley and surrounding area, Nipawin, Moose Jaw, Estevan, Weyburn, and Carlyle, also in their surrounding areas, where these individuals are connected with other service providers in these communities and they use a relentless outreach approach with family members and individuals who are at risk of domestic violence. And then there is . . . I’m just going to move on to the next one.

In response to recommendation no. 3, which is to broaden victim-centred approaches in systems to better support individuals affected by domestic violence, including family members and victims, there is a group who are working on a project titled Adverse Childhood Experiences, again with the national action plan funding. And their role — again most of these, almost all of them are through an RFP process — is to develop and implement a response to adverse childhood experiences, increasing understanding and awareness of the connection between adverse childhood experiences and interpersonal violence and abuse.

Another project is a universal domestic violence assessment tool, and a community-based organization is also working on this. And they are working to collaboratively develop a common risk-assessment tool to be used by all professionals that interact with those at risk of domestic violence. And the idea behind this tool will be to create some awareness across service provision but also to reduce the times that a victim may need to tell their story.

We have ongoing programming with regard to recommendation no. 3, children-exposed-to-violence programming across the province. We have ongoing programming for second-stage housing and ongoing programming for the family intervention support teams which I talked about.

And then with regard to recommendation no. 4, which is to enhance legislation and policies to strengthen domestic violence prevention efforts and improve support for victims, in conjunction with Social Services, we’re piloting a Safe & Together program in two communities. And the idea is to increase knowledge and coordination among human services professionals of the impacts of intimate partner violence on the family. In these two particular communities, training on the Safe & Together program has been completed, and now we’ll be working with the communities on the next steps of this service, this connection across service providers.

As you are aware, there is the legislation around 10 days of entitlement of leave. We continue with the victim advocate case reviews, Clare’s Law, and the fixed-term tenancy.

And then two more recommendations. Recommendation no. 5 from the domestic violence death review is to prioritize accessibility, availability, and appropriateness of domestic violence services in northern, rural, and isolated communities. So we have a transportation program specific for northern Saskatchewan and then a transportation program for other parts of Saskatchewan as well. That’s ongoing. The provincial crisis line, 211, the ministry continues to provide funding for that and also for work that we’re doing around the northern alcohol strategy.

And then recommendation no. 6 also speaks to the transportation program, which is to enhance accessibility and support of victims of domestic violence through infrastructure development initiatives.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you for that lengthy list. I greatly appreciate all the work that you do and providing that information to us. I believe — and you can correct me if I’m wrong — I believe the report was released in January of this year. The programs you mentioned, some of them have been around for a while; some of them sound new to my ears. Can you specifically focus on which programs were created after the publishing of the report and what provincial dollars are allocated to that program and what federal dollars are allocated to that program?

Gina Alexander: — So earlier the minister in his opening comments talked about the $31.7 million, the investment in the Justice ministries for interpersonal violence and abuse. Specific to the domestic violence death review recommendations, they and the national action plan recommendations were developed based on Saskatchewan’s specific context, the data, and the feedback from stakeholders, resulting in some alignment between those recommendations and the initiatives.

So with that I’ll talk about the investment, the 31.7 million investment for ’25-26. In terms of the federally funded programs and services, 4.65 for the national action plan; 630,000 for the family information liaison unit; 300,000 for the Re:Connect gender-based violence crisis hotline; 243,000 for The Listen Project; 219 for missing persons liaison program; and 173 for victim services responders in Saskatchewan for two child advocacy centres to provide support for children and parent clients of the child advocacy centres in Regina and Saskatoon; and 105 for support of families of missing persons to provide specialized counselling and support for groups focusing on ambiguous loss.

Those are the federal numbers. And we can do some quick addition to give you the total.

Nicole Sarauer: — Sorry to interrupt. I don’t mean to interrupt you, but I just want to clarify. Those programs that you’re talking about now, were those not in existence prior to January of 2025?

Gina Alexander: — So in response to your question, what I was referencing for the federally funded programs and services is additional funding to support ongoing programs.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you. This question is for the minister. Other jurisdictions have declared intimate partner violence in their province an epidemic — Ontario, for example. What is the ministry’s position on this? Are you prepared to declare it an epidemic tonight?

Hon. Tim McLeod: — Thanks for the question. I would say that we will continue to make investments and work towards ending interpersonal and domestic violence continually. The investments need to continue to be made, and we need to continue to focus on this problem until there are no further incidents. So we’ll continue to make strides and investments and work on programs, and we will continue to do that until there’s not a single case left.

Nicole Sarauer: — I have further questions in this area, but I’m going to pause them because I’m seeing what time it is on the clock, and I want to get to a few other things as well this evening.

Minister, could you provide for the committee the total cost to date for counsel for the UR Pride and Government of Saskatchewan litigation?

Hon. Tim McLeod: — You’re talking about an ongoing litigation?

Nicole Sarauer: — Correct.

Hon. Tim McLeod: — Yeah. No, we would assert solicitor-client privilege on any ongoing litigation cases. Certainly any costs in budget years for past third-party counsel or things like that are certainly open to disclosure, but an ongoing specific case we would assert solicitor-client privilege for that.

Nicole Sarauer: — Can you explain why you’re asserting solicitor-client privilege?

Hon. Tim McLeod: — Because the matter’s ongoing. It’s an open litigation, and so we would protect any information relating to solicitor-client privilege on an ongoing matter.

Nicole Sarauer: — Has the ministry made any payments on that matter to outside counsel to date?

Max Bilson: — Thank you for the question. Max Bilson, deputy attorney general. As you’re probably aware, there are kind of four basic baskets that we use to analyze whether to retain outside counsel or not. We retain outside counsel if we lack expertise; if we lack capacity; if there’s a conflict, you know, for some reason we have a conflict on the file; or for administrative convenience. And an example of that would be maintenance enforcement chambers, that we retain counsel in rural areas of the province and in Saskatoon because it’s easier for us to manage that than to have a lawyer on staff.

That said, the matter you’re referring to, we determined fit into a couple of those areas. So yes, we’ve retained outside counsel in that matter. And I think it’s a matter of record that that’s MacPherson Leslie & Tyerman. And again, we’re not going to speak to the amounts paid in that litigation until the matter is concluded. And yeah, we’ll leave it at that.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you. I’m not disputing the why of retaining outside counsel; I’m merely inquiring about the cost. And as you well know, Minister, the matter is currently on reserve at the Court of Appeal on a preliminary issue. King’s Bench hasn’t even heard the substantive application yet. It will likely be years before this litigation is concluded — years of expenditure of money on this litigation.

Again I ask the minister why the people of the province should wait years to find out what the costs of this litigation have been when, as you and I both know, likely the outside counsel is paid on an ongoing invoicing. And there have, I’m sure, been expenditures paid to date.

Hon. Tim McLeod: — Again I would restate that the matter of a retainer for ongoing counsel in an ongoing matter is a very tightly held matter of solicitor-client privilege in any litigation that I’ve ever been involved in. So while we’re certainly happy to discuss the estimates for this year’s budget, divulging something beyond solicitor-client privilege is not something that we’re comfortable doing at the table tonight.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you. But just to be clear, the government is the client. The ministry is the client. So as the client you have the right to waive solicitor-client privilege at any point that you deem necessary.

But I see I’m not going to get an answer, so I’m going to move on to ask about the Economic Impact Assessment Tribunal, which I have not seen any mention of in the business plan or in the estimates or in your opening remarks. Can you give some information to the committee about the status of that tribunal?

Hon. Tim McLeod: — Thanks for the question. So the Economic Impact Assessment Tribunal doesn’t currently have any referred matters to it, and so it stands ready and waiting for a referral. The tribunal members that have been appointed are certainly prepared to receive any referrals, but given that there are none currently before the tribunal, there’s no staff on a day-to-day basis. It would be staffed and receive a referral in the event that one was provided.

Nicole Sarauer: — Okay, thank you. That was going to be my question. Last estimates there were two FTEs allocated to the tribunal. Are you saying at this point in time there are no FTEs?

Hon. Tim McLeod: — Currently we have funds budgeted for the tribunal in the event that it’s necessary, but there’s no positions currently filled because there are no matters before the tribunal.

Nicole Sarauer: — How much is budgeted for the tribunal for this year?

Hon. Tim McLeod: — 212,000.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you. Are there any plans to utilize the tribunal in this fiscal year?

Hon. Tim McLeod: — So we won’t speculate whether or not the tribunal will be necessary, but it certainly stands ready in the event that cabinet direction was provided and they were engaged.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you. Can you explain for the committee what the CBOs [community-based organization] that receive funding through Justice will receive in terms of an increase to funding in this fiscal?

Brad Gurash: — Brad Gurash, assistant deputy minister, corporate services. So for ’25-26, the Ministry of Justice and Attorney General includes 26.215 million for community-based organizations. This includes an increase of $720,000, or 3 per cent. As a government, we’re committed to working with communities and community-based partners to make life better for everyone in Saskatchewan. And the Ministry of Justice and Attorney General’s investments in CBOs support organizations that work to address the impact of interpersonal violence and abuse and contribute to the delivery of the Aboriginal court worker program.

Some of the areas that we fund are family violence intervention, sexual assault transfers, transition houses, the family intervention rapid support teams, transportation transfers, second-stage housing, enhanced residential services, victim advocate case reviews, and other interpersonal violence and abuse programming.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you. So just to clarify, I believe you just said that all organizations, all CBOs, would be receiving a 3 per cent increase.

Brad Gurash: — Correct.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you. I want to ask about second-stage shelters in particular. There was mentioned in remarks at some point that this represents additional funding for second-stage shelters. Are you referencing the 3 per cent increase? Or is it an increase that was reflected in the . . . I believe it was a three-year plan for funding? Or is it additional funding on top of what I’ve just mentioned?

Brad Gurash: — For the second-stage housing it is just the 3 per cent this year, as all CBOs get.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you. Do you know how much that amounts to on a per-unit basis?

Brad Gurash: — The funding would be 4,000 per unit plus the 3 per cent.

Nicole Sarauer: — You can correct me if I’m wrong. Last time I checked, Alberta provides funding for their second-stage shelters at a rate of $10,000 per unit. Is there any plans for expanding our supports for second-stage shelters to match what other jurisdictions do? I understand, from speaking to second-stage shelters, that the money currently provided by the province is not adequate to meet the needs.

Kimberly Kratzig: — We work with our second-stage funding partners to understand the needs to ensure that they’re able to deliver these very important services and that they’re funded accordingly.

In terms of the comparison to other provinces, without really doing a sort of jurisdictional scan to ensure that we are comparing apples to apples, understanding what another province might fund within that bucket . . . We might fund it a certain way through Justice, and maybe another ministry in the human service sector is providing a different level of support to those same clients. So we don’t really comment on sort of the interjurisdictional comparison without understanding exactly what the various funding regimes are. But we do work closely with our partners to understand what their funding needs are.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you. Moving on to another topic, I understand that there has been some work on an Indigenous court project based out of Saskatoon. Can you provide a status update on that project?

Rory Jensen: — The Chief Judge of the Provincial Court is interested in exploring the potential for having an Indigenous court in Saskatchewan. She’s asked the ministry for support in completing that analysis. Once she has that documentation and analysis done, that would be a decision of the Chief Judge to establish a new court similar to other therapeutic courts where it’s the purview of the court.

But the ministry is working with the Provincial Court and the Chief Judge to complete analysis on the potential for Indigenous court in Saskatchewan.

Nicole Sarauer: — Is there a timeline to completion of that analysis?

Rory Jensen: — I know that Chief Judge is interested in this and I know that she would be looking for this work to begin this year and if possible to be completed in the fiscal year, but within the next 12 to 18 months.

Nicole Sarauer: — Do you have a certain amount of dollars allocated to assisting with this project?

Rory Jensen: — Right now we do not have funds specifically allocated to this project, but we’re working with the Provincial Court to identify what potential costs could be.

Hon. Tim McLeod: — If I could just add, I think it’s important to note that we’re exploring interest here. It’s not something that has been budgeted because it hasn’t gotten far enough along that conversation yet.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you. Being cognizant of the time, I want to ask a quick question around the Aboriginal court worker program. Last time I had the opportunity to talk about this, which I believe was two years ago, I don’t think I had time to ask questions about this last fiscal. The program expansion that was planned was actually put on pause to review the program as a whole is what was told to me in last estimates. What’s the status of this review, and what’s the status of the program as a whole?

Rory Jensen: — So the Aboriginal court work program, it enhances access to justice by helping Indigenous people receive fair, just, equitable, culturally sensitive treatment for the court. Right now it serves over 5,000 clients annually.

In 2023 we completed a review of the program. The primary focus of the review was to ensure that there were accountable provisions, that there was consistent service across the province, that there was verification that the programs were operating effectively, and to ensure that there was equitable access and similar services across the province so each area of the province was receiving similar services throughout the province.

This program continues to operate, and we also provided additional — it’s subject to the CBO list — so there’s additional fundings going through as part of the CBO list that other community-based organizations are receiving.

Nicole Sarauer: — How many Aboriginal court workers are there currently?

Rory Jensen: — The Ministry of Justice works through 10 carrier agencies. I don’t have the number of FTEs or employees with each agency with me, but we do contract with 10 agencies throughout the province.

Nicole Sarauer: — The ministry has been able to tell me how many in the past. Has there been a change in how this program is operating from previous years?

Rory Jensen: — No, I just don’t have the number of employees with me.

Nicole Sarauer: — Can you commit to providing that information at a later date?

Rory Jensen: — Yeah. Yes.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you. I have a few questions — I have many questions — for the coroner’s office. I’m going to have to condense them. But I’m wondering if the coroner could provide some information on statistics that their office is experiencing and how that’s changed from last year.

Hon. Tim McLeod: — Sorry, was there a question?

Nicole Sarauer: — Yes, I was asking for stats. Office stats of . . .

Hon. Tim McLeod: — Stats on what? Specifically.

Nicole Sarauer: — Deaths and amounts that those have changed. Usually in . . . sorry, I understand that there’s a few new folks around the table. But typically the coroner’s office has a plethora of stats that they are willing to provide the committee in terms of where the pressure points are at their office, amount of deaths they’ve had to investigate, all that sort of thing. If you need further details than that I can dig them up and provide them.

Hon. Tim McLeod: — I guess we’re just . . . We want to be accurate in terms of the stats that you’re looking for. Like the 2024 . . .

Nicole Sarauer: — Yeah, the most currently available stats and how they compare to the year previous.

Jeff Wagner: — Good evening. Jeff Wagner, Chief Coroner for the Saskatchewan Coroners Service. So for cases, there are approximately 11,000 deaths that occur in Saskatchewan every year. In 2024 the coroners service investigated 2,958 cases, which was 35 less than we saw in ’23. It represented a 1.2 per cent decrease.

For deaths involving children from 2020 to ’24 there were 723 deaths of children and youth from birth to the age of 18 in Saskatchewan. Of those deaths, 409 were without underlying medical causes. The average number of children dying from preventable deaths — unnatural causes, which would be accident, homicide, or suicide — on average is 47 between 2021-24.

So for ’24 we had 65 deaths that were between the ages of 0 to 18 and deemed to be children. This was a decrease of 37 less than the previous year of 102. And out of those 65 deaths, 20 were from natural causes, 45 were from unnatural causes — again, accident, homicide, or suicide — and five of those would have been in the care of Social Services. We still have eight cases that are pending.

Drug toxicity deaths, in 2024 we had 346 confirmed and suspected drug tox deaths. This was 112 less than in 2023 and represented a 24 per cent decrease. For post-mortem examinations, in 2024 we conducted 834 post-mortem examinations, which is a decrease of 109 or 12 per cent from 2023. The body transports, for 2023-24 fiscal year we conducted 2,090 body transports. This was 142 less than the previous year and represented a 6.4 per cent decrease. We’re projecting a 10.3 decrease for ’24-25. And then for inquests we had, in 2024 we conducted 12 inquests.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you. Those are the stats I was looking for. I really appreciate that. You went over one really quickly that I was keen to learn about. I think you answered it, but can you repeat it for me? How many of those deaths that you had mentioned were children in care of the Ministry of Social Services?

Jeff Wagner: — There’s five that were in care, and we still have eight cases that are still pending.

Nicole Sarauer: — Five for the last year?

Jeff Wagner: — That’s for ’24, yeah.

Nicole Sarauer: — For ’24. And eight still pending. What is the status of the child death review proposal?

Rory Jensen: — So Saskatchewan investigates child deaths through a variety of unique mechanisms. The Saskatchewan Advocate for Children and Youth investigates deaths of children in care as do ministries responsible for the care of those children. SGI [Saskatchewan Government Insurance] and police services investigate traffic-related fatalities. The health care system investigates the death of some children in hospitals. First Nations and Inuit health branch, a federal government organization, investigate death of children on-reserve from communicable disease. And the coroners service investigates sudden and unexpected deaths.

Over the next year, the ministry is going to conduct a jurisdictional scan to compare how Saskatchewan investigates the death of minors in comparison to the other jurisdictions across the country to determine if there’s any gaps in the investigations completed and the communication between various organizations within government. Once that investigation and jurisdictional scan is completed, we will then make determinations on our next steps for any further . . . We’ll make determinations on our next steps.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you for that explanation. This is a recommendation that has been on the books for several years now. Can the ministry explain why implementing this recommendation has been taking so long?

Kimberly Kratzig: — Thank you. This is a matter that the ministry has been looking at and considering for the past several years, as my colleague ADM [assistant deputy minister] Jensen mentioned. There has been a child death review stakeholder committee that has looked at this issue as well. And I think, as ADM Jensen outlined, we have a variety of mechanisms that are looking at child deaths. What we’re trying to understand now, the provinces that do have review committees, do they have the same connections that we have as a small province that works closely together? So we really want to understand are there any gaps before we make that next decision to determine if there are gaps that we have that we need to close.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you for that. Being cognizant of the time, I do have a few questions for Legal Aid. I will have to condense the questions that I do have, but I’m wondering if Legal Aid could provide some information on readily available, most recent file amounts, clients, usage of the program for Saskatchewan.

Jayne Mallin: — Apologies for the delay. Jayne Mallin, CEO [chief executive officer], Legal Aid Saskatchewan. As of 2023 we’ve had an increase in full-service files handled by Legal Aid Saskatchewan. Last year we had full-service files of 14,707. This year we took on 17,972 full-service files. 15,388 of those files were assigned to staff, 2,584 assigned to the private bar due to conflict and other operational requirements.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you. Has the increase in demand for your services been felt across the province and across the board in terms of matters? Or are there particular pressure points that you’re experiencing?

Jayne Mallin: — We have seen pressure points in different locations. Certainly we’re noticing increases in some of our rural points. Meadow Lake in particular, we’re seeing increases. We are seeing increases in youth files in Saskatoon. And we are seeing increased numbers generally in Regina and Saskatoon, in the urban centres. Overall I think we were looking at about a 12 per cent increase across the board, with some regional variation.

Nicole Sarauer: — Has your staff complement also increased by 12 per cent?

Jayne Mallin: — I don’t have the percentage increase. Our staff complement has increased. I can get that number for you.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you. I was also wondering about Legal Aid’s current financial eligibility guidelines. How do they compare with other jurisdictions?

Jayne Mallin: — I would have to get that to you. I don’t have it in front of me, how they compare. But we certainly look at our financial eligibility guidelines as they compare to other jurisdictions from time to time. I don’t have that information in front of me.

Nicole Sarauer: — No, I appreciate that. Thank you. If you can provide that at a later date, that would be lovely. I forgot to ask, in your pressure points that you’re experiencing, is it criminal or is it criminal and family that you’re experiencing?

Jayne Mallin: — The pressure point’s mainly in the area of criminal. Where we are finding pressures in the area of family law is with respect to finding private bar lawyers who can take on the work. So the pressure is being felt by our staff, but the pressure in numbers is more prominent in the criminal law services.

Nicole Sarauer: — Historically there have been instances where Legal Aid is able to provide the committee average file load numbers per lawyer. Are you able to provide that information to the committee tonight?

Jayne Mallin: — I’m unable to provide exact numbers. The reason for that is we have a new vice-president of operations and administration, and she is currently working through our data and our data framework and looking to update those numbers.

We used a point scale to determine our file numbers and weighted them based on whether it was criminal, family, or duty counsel file. And we’re looking at better ways to evaluate. I can tell you that, based on the way we did calculate our numbers, there hasn’t been a significant increase in file load for individual lawyers.

Nicole Sarauer: — From Legal Aid’s perspective, have there been any challenges with file delay within the court system? And if the answer is yes, are there any indications of what the challenges are a result of?

Jayne Mallin: — I have not had it brought to my attention by legal directors or staff lawyers that there has been any increase in delay. And I can again ask, but it hasn’t been brought to my attention.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you. Are you able to provide any information to the committee on access to counsel in terms of client is approved and then their first meeting with counsel? I understand that varies from location to location — it has historically — and of course varies from matter to matter. Do you have that information available tonight?

Jayne Mallin: — So I can tell you generally overall our average wait times have improved quite significantly. Our goal is 85 per cent of our clients to speak with a lawyer within three weeks. That does not include individuals receiving duty counsel services, as they typically speak to a lawyer on the date of service provided.

And so what I can tell you is our average wait time, based on location, varies from a low of four days to a high of 40 days. And in youth that varies from a low of six days to a high of 40 days. Family is a range of 5 to 27 days.

Nicole Sarauer: — Can you provide to the committee where the high stress points are in the numbers that you just provided?

Jayne Mallin: — Yeah. The highest wait time in adult criminal was in Regina rural. That’s down significantly from 90 in previous years. And in youth criminal, it is a delay . . . The 40 days wait time is in Swift Current. And in family, the highest at 27 is Saskatoon city.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you for that information. I appreciate it. The ministry has in the past been able to provide to the committee information as to how many criminal matters were stayed due to delay in the previous fiscal. Is the ministry able to provide that information this evening?

Elizabeth Hilts: — Good evening. Elizabeth Hilts, assistant deputy attorney general for public prosecutions. I don’t have a year-by-year breakdown. I think that’s information that we could get, and I can certainly, you know, make arrangements to provide that information to you for 2024.

Nicole Sarauer: — Thank you so much. I greatly appreciate it. At this time I know my colleague has questions about human rights, so I’m going to pass the baton on to her. I do want to take this opportunity though to thank the minister for answering my questions and in particular thank the officials for all of their work every single day, but in addition, answering my questions this evening. Your passion for your work is noted and very much appreciated, and just a heartfelt thank you.

Chair B. McLeod: — Minister McLeod, just a response? Go ahead.

Hon. Tim McLeod: — Yeah, if I could. Thank you, and thank you to Ms. Sarauer for her very thoughtful questions and patience as we endeavoured to provide the answers the best we could. I will return to my chair to give some closing remarks at the end of this committee’s sitting, but for the next round of questions. I’ll ask my colleague, Minister Ross, to take this chair.

. . .

Hon. Tim McLeod: — Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to very briefly . . . Again, thanks to MLA Sarauer, and thank you to MLA Roy and the rest of the committee for the first half. And I specifically wanted to say a heartfelt thanks to all of the officials who have joined us here this evening and given very graciously of their time. And they’ve been just a tremendous support through this process. So before we swap officials, I wanted to make sure that we acknowledge and thanks very much to all the officials that have joined us here. And I appreciate the opportunity. Thank you.

Chair B. McLeod: — And thank you for each one of you that were here as well, from me for my part, the expertise and the thoughtful answers that have come. I’ve been very much appreciative of them. The committee will now recess. You’re good? Okay, I want to make sure everybody’s covered here. The committee’s going to recess until 8 p.m. I’m going to be a bit of a task driver tonight and make this work. Thank you.

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